Dispersal Numbering

04 Sep 2018 21:03 - 05 Sep 2018 09:43 #11 by carnaby
Replied by carnaby on topic Dispersal Numbering
Drem Mk.III dispersal indicators came in late war, when probably most additional dispersals had been added where necessary. It would have been sensible to have renumbered them, but the RSPs suggest otherwise in some cases. For a tired pilot returning in bad visibility from ops to a strange airfield it must have been hell following the instructions, 'turn right off the runway and follow the track round to dispersal 21. It's after 22 and 9, but before 8 and 7.
.....................................

The only consistency seems to be that they were numbered clockwise from the north...

Just when you thought...

Lasham: 52 hardstandings numbered HS1 etc but running anti-clockwise from the south

Morton-in-Marsh: 42 frying-pans numbered sequentially, clockwise from the west (Willis & Hollis states 36)

Silverstone: 30 pans numbered sequentially clockwise from the north, the only exception being ...5,6, 9,10,11,12, 8,7, 13....

Strubby: 36 spectacles numbered sequentially, clockwise from the west

Tempsford has two spectacles and approx 49 frying pans. The latter seem to be of two sizes; four have blister hangars on them.
Thirteen (most seem to be the larger type) are marked 'PSD' which appears in the index as 'Hard Standings Dispersal - 17 off'
Willis & Hollis states 36 Heavy Bomber standings !

I'm off for a beer or six!

Plan A is always more effective when the problem you are working on understands that Plan B will involve the use of dynamite :twisted:
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05 Sep 2018 08:38 #12 by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic Dispersal Numbering
This has long been a muddle to say the least, it also occurs with building numbers.
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07 Sep 2018 15:35 #13 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Dispersal Numbering

I am pretty sure that at Leconfield, during. the period 1944-1945, when it was a Bomber command airfield and my fathers squadron, 640 Sqn was in residence, that the dispersals were assigned to specific aircraft (Halifaxs) by squadron letter codes.

I think that there were 36 dispersals, and that although for a lot of that period only one squadron was based there, there were periods when there were two.
The initial establishment was for 26 crews which implies 26 aircraft

So I suspect that things were relatively fluid depending on the circumstances and the people would would have known what was where were probably mainly the SNCO's in charge of maintenance, refueling and bombing up

That is not to say that they didint have numbers as well to identify them for other purposes of course

It occurs to me as well that this example is for that of a 1944/45 bomber station and would not apply to airfield s serving other purposes at other times during and post war


I know I had seen this somewhere, thanks to TonyH
This is part of the Bomber Command State board for 4 Group which now hangs on a wall at RAFM Hendon and shows the state on 26 April 1945. 51 Sqn had transferred in from Snaith in mid April

Given that there were 36 dispersals, Leconfield must have become very busy as 640 Sqn had a Unit Establishment of 20 aircraft, with 25 on strength and 18 available for Ops,
and 51 had a UE of 20 with 32 on strength and 24 available for operations, so between 42 and 57 aircraft assigned to the airfield

No answer to the original question of course but it demonstrates the complexity of managing aircraft on the ground at that time

kevin

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07 Sep 2018 18:00 #14 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic Dispersal Numbering
This now begs the question as to how big was a squadron. Given the different unit establishments and skipping onto "available for ops", there was a wide variation in reality. I laways thought a squadron was a fixed number, and had 12 in my head, but maybe that was a pre-war number. Also my impression of a USAAF bomb group was around 36 (3x12), if this was true many RAF sqaudron were nearly equivalent to a bomb group. This must have made airfield construction and particularly dispersals a bit hit and miss, to say the least.

This is not something I had looked at before but reading loads of squadron ORB's has painted a very different picture to my impressions but one that, in retrospect, makes more sense.

No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
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08 Sep 2018 09:16 #15 by carnaby
Replied by carnaby on topic Dispersal Numbering
The allocated number of dispersals has remained a bit of a mystery to me for years.

Eighth AF bomber bases had ideally 50 standings as each bombardment group consisted of four squadrons, each of 12 aircraft. Thus there were two spare dispersals. Roger Freeman states that only one aircraft could be stored on a frying-pan type, but it was possible to locate two on a spectacle hardstanding.

RAF station complement changed slightly during the conflict, and I haven't been able to get the full facts. There was a period when each station would accommodate either a single 3-flight squadron, or two 2-flight units, a flight being eight aircraft.

For the former the allocation was increased to 24 + 6 reserve later in the war. This would present no problem for the typical 36 hardstanding airfield. However the 2-flight squadrons would have an issue in that the allocation here was 16 + 4 aircraft and thus when two were sited on a station, then 40 standings would be required.

I expect and hope this discussion to continue.

Plan A is always more effective when the problem you are working on understands that Plan B will involve the use of dynamite :twisted:
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08 Sep 2018 09:49 #16 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Dispersal Numbering
Thinking about Bomber Command airfields in particular ...

I have always believed that in late 1944 and in 1945 that the attrition rate for bomber command was falling, and that logically the production rate of replacement aircraft was increasing which may be behind the number of aircraft on charge exceeding the establishment

To follow up on something Peter said, my example above may not be a good one as 640 Sqn was swapping over from Halifax III to Halifax VI in March 1945 so that there may have been an element of duplication still in late April, difficult to know

From a mantenance and supply point of view, the discussion is possibly also complicated by the Bomber Command base inftrastucture so that 43 base, ie ( the 3rd 'base' in 4 Group) was HQed at Driffield and included both Leconfield and Lissett

Individual aircraft were identified by their allocated letter, so 26 max. In my reading of 640's ORB there is certainly no record of aircraft id'ed outside that range. We would need to look at the ORB's of the squadrons which show more than 26 aircraft on strength, as shown on the example photo above, to take that further. Tony was able to get good photos of all the group columns if we decide to persue that aspect of this discussion

.

.

kevin
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08 Sep 2018 12:43 #17 by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic Dispersal Numbering
On the subject of the number of aircraft per squadron, at Gutersloh each of the 2 Harrier squadrons had 21 aircraft, and 6 HASs. So where did the other 3 aircraft go? Simples as the Merekat says, there were always 3 aircraft on either a major or a minor service. I believe that at the time they were the largest squadrons in the RAF.
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