Training Bomber Crews - questions

Trying to fully understand WWII Bomber Operational Training . Due to periodic changes to improve efficiency it's not easy to get ones head round it. Please pull my theories to pieces if necessary.

I'm really interested only in the principal system (OTU + HCU) in use from mid 1941 onwards.

Pilot - simple - entered an OTU from a (P)AFU.

Navigator, trained at an (O)AFU. Correct?

Bomb aimer were also air gunners who - pre 1941 would be trained at a Bombing and Gunnery School. Makes good sense! However the BGSs then were replaced by Air Observation Schools - (which doesn't make a lot of sense).

Wireless Operator, would also an air gunner. He would be trained at an AGS, (and spent a good deal of time earlier at a Radio School).

Rear Gunner - from an AGS - would he have any other skills?

These five guys then went on to an HCU where a Mid-upper Gunner, and the Flight Engineer were added.

Where did the engineer train? I assume he had done some time in the air to at least prove that he didn't get air-sick.

Graham

Some were trained as flight engineers at RAF Locking. Those finished up training at RAF St Athan. Postings to HCU's followed I believe. After that OCU's and then on to operational squadrons.

This any good?

That's quite a good representation, Ossie. Needs some work on it as I'm sure that the HCUs came in after the B&GSs had been renamed. Also doesn't show the extra air gunner entering the HCU.

A good place to start from though.

Graham

My late uncle was an Air Gunner and from his service record I see he did:-

Before applying for Aircrew he'd already been to
No. 8 School of Technical Training - Blackpool
No 32 Maintenance Unit - St Athan

He then applied or was selected for aircrew

1. Aircrew Receiving Centre St Johns Wood
2. 14 Initial Training Wing ( Marine Hotel Hastings) - 6 weeks
3. 14 Air Gunners Initial training Wing ( Bridlington)
4. No 2 Air Gunnery School (AGS). RAF Dalcross ( Inverness Airport) flying Ansons & Defiants
5. No28 Operational Training unit, located at RAF Wymeswold & RAF Castle Donnington in Leicestershire. Flying Wellingtons
6. 1656 HCU at RAF Lindholme in Yorkshire ( only for 1 day!)
7. 1662 HCU at RAF Blyton in Lincolnshire - Lancasters
8. 103 Squadron - Elsham Wolds - Lancasters

Thanks for the useful info added to date guys.

I note from AP3236, 'During the war period schemes for the training of pupils in bombing, gunnery and navigation were to under go a series of complicated changes...'

They are dead right on that one! More info very welcome - a picture is beginning to emerge.

Graham

Although Coastal Command had flown 4-engined aircraft in the '30s with a Gunner/Fitter on board to watch engine performance, Bomber Command only began to catch up in 1940, with the advent of Stirlings & Halifaxes, where it was recognised that the workload of such an aircraft would need a crew member dedicated to being a Flight Engineer. The first Flt Engs were also Gunners, after the CC pattern, & they were Fitters who attended a 3-week course at a B&GS, or at Manby, then went on to do a type familiarisation technical course at Handley-Page or Short's. Once posted to a flying unit, they were given temporary rank of Sgt "in their original trade" (RAF Historical Society Journal No 47, pg 90). Even then, the flying folk looked askance at their new hands. Those early Flt Engs had to wear an Air Gunner's badge, as the Eng Brevet wasn't invented until 1942. Their status gradually improved over the next year or two, & eventually it was recognised that Flt Engs didn't all need to be fully qualified fitters or riggers, & so direct entry civilians were accepted in Mid-1943. By this time there was a big demand for them, as there were now far more heavy bombers & other 4-engined aircraft in service, & crews lost in action had to be replaced. No 4 S of TT at St Athan was the hub for Flt Eng training, with entrants going through courses of varying lengths, according to their expertise on joining. They didn't get much training time in the air, either - "...from mid-1943 onwards, it was quite normal for them to qualify for their badges without ever having flown in an aeroplane." (RAFHS Journal 47 Pg 101). By 1944, Flt Engs had cemented their place in a bomber crew, & were fully accepted. Post war, the RAF attempted to revert to its bad old ways, but circumstances did not allow it. The last Flight Engineers to get their 'E' badges qualified in 2002.

The article I've used is in the publication quoted. Its a useful journal as it covers a huge variety of RAF-related topics.

After the second world war roughly 1949ish the RAF changed the name of flight engineer to air engineer. And the RAF was the only air force in the world to use the title.

As for bomb aimers they were trained as navigators first then as bomb aimers or to be correct air bombers.