Boeing 787 Dreamliner

12 Feb 2019 11:00 #11 by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic Boeing 787 Dreamliner
I watched a programme the other day and part of it was about composite aircraft including the 787. Apparently the fatigue problems are reduced when you use composites, how does that affect this aircrafts life? Basically does that mean composite aircraft can go on forever?

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13 Feb 2019 22:12 #12 by PJH
Replied by PJH on topic Boeing 787 Dreamliner
Unfortunately Canberra, no. They are more resistant as stated, and are more resistant to conventional cracks as well (damage tolerance), at least partly due to their makeup of having lots of individual fibres in a resin matrix. However they are also prone to different failure modes such as delaminations and inter-laminar failures (i.e. between individual layers of cloth). Another issue is that, whilst very good in an initial impact, this damages the surface layers and makes them much more prone to failure from a subsequent impact - materials such as Kevlar have better properties in this area even though their initial strength is less than carbon.

On balance though the static strength per unit weight is better with CFRP than for conventional Aluminium alloy and the fatigue and damage tolerance properties are in general no worse, hence the shift to CFRP for primary structures. The slow uptake in airliners has been due to a mixture of general conservatism, being happy that the manufacturing processes can provide consistent material strength values, and ensuring consistent joint strengths. The ability to do repairs is another issue (e.g. when another ground vehicle on the apron drives into a wing) - much simpler and better controlled with Aluminium up to now.
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14 Feb 2019 10:54 #13 by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic Boeing 787 Dreamliner
The real reason I asked was to do with the Harrier II. Apparently they didnt have major servicings in the RAF and that was apparently down to the use of carbon fibre. Mind you that was a problem when it came to them crashing and catching fire, it caused minute particles to be blown in to the atmosphere, and was a pollution hazard.

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11 Jan 2020 11:32 #14 by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic Boeing 787 Dreamliner
I watched a programme about Heathrow the other night. They showed the first Kuala Lumpur flight by BA with a 787. And I thought why switch from a 747??? A 747 can carry more people and more freight. So although the 787 uses less fuel, it also carries less people or cargo. Cant help feeling someones missed a trick.

As for the Polish aircraft doing an MOD charter, MOD has always chartered civvy aircraft even during the cold war.

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13 Jan 2020 15:21 #15 by John Anderson
Replied by John Anderson on topic Boeing 787 Dreamliner

I watched a programme about Heathrow the other night. They showed the first Kuala Lumpur flight by BA with a 787. And I thought why switch from a 747??? A 747 can carry more people and more freight. So although the 787 uses less fuel, it also carries less people or cargo. Cant help feeling someones missed a trick.

As for the Polish aircraft doing an MOD charter, MOD has always chartered civvy aircraft even during the cold war.


I worked at KUL for BA in the 1970's when BA 747 flights were all transits typically routing LHR/Gulf/KUL/Oz and vice versa. The majority of passengers were not travelling LHR/KUL/LHR, but end to end LHR to Oz. BA's 747's are due to go out of service in 2024 and with high operating costs are no longer used to Oz (replaced by B777). All direct BA flights to Oz now route via Singapore and so BA decided to put the 787 (twin engined, non stop and lower operating costs) on the KUL route to reflect the lower passenger volumes.

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14 Jan 2020 11:18 #16 by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic Boeing 787 Dreamliner
I never twigged that KL wouldnt have had high passenger numbers, thanks for that.

As for the mighty 747 personally I think that the only replacement for one is a 747!

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