200 yard Moving Target Ranges

02 Nov 2009 06:34 #121 by PETERTHEEATER
Replied by PETERTHEEATER on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Ashington MTR (for Morpeth)

Good one.

I make the NGR NZ 30302 85839 using the AiX Geolocator programme.

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02 Nov 2009 19:34 #122 by billflentje
Replied by billflentje on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
It has been a struggle - but I am getting there.

Visited Walney in 2006 to look at the old 600 yard gallery range. Found the old butts, but also stumbled over concrete slabs nearby which did not make sense at all at the time. Thanks to your efforts I now know that it was W1 and parts of W2 of the 200y MTR we were looking at, with W1 having fallen flat on its face.
Attached some pictures showing the scene at the time.

Attached files [IMG]/community/33873=636-Walney Island 19.05.06 062.jpg[/img] [IMG]/community/33873=637-Walney Island 19.05.06 063.jpg[/img] [IMG]/community/33873=638-Walney Island 19.05.06 066.jpg[/img] [IMG]/community/33873=639-Walney Island 19.05.06 067.jpg[/img] [IMG]/community/33873=640-Walney Island 19.05.06 070.jpg[/img]

Eine kleine Schwalbe macht noch keinen Sommer

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02 Nov 2009 20:34 #123 by Movingtarget
Replied by Movingtarget on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Ageree, thanks for the Walney photos. Here's one I took from a slightly different angle in 2005, looking inland from W1 (which is on its side as can be seen in Google, etc.) towards what's left of W2...

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Will add some of other range remains if this image works !

JohnG

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02 Nov 2009 20:52 #124 by Movingtarget
Replied by Movingtarget on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Some more photos of remains:

Dumfries
W1 was all there and half of W2 was still extant in 2005. The circuit of track was built on a slope so part of it was in a shallow cutting and part on a small embankement.
Wall W1

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Wall W2

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Silloth
Very little remains but parts of W2 still ther in 2005. Trackbed visible in some parts with a bit of an embankment on the Southern side.
Seaward end of W2 looking at location of W1

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Southwestern corner of W2

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I'll post some shots of the Theddlethorpe Turret/Workshop building soon,
JohnG

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03 Nov 2009 14:17 #125 by Movingtarget
Replied by Movingtarget on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Dumfries - the Bull was on holiday when I went !

Theddlethorpe

I've visited the site here 2-3 times and there's quite a few remains including walls W1-3 and the Turret building or workshop, possibly the best or only remaining example. I spoke to a local chap who was a child when the range was built (he thought in 1936-7) and then after the war he worked for the RAF as a general handyman on the site. He said that as a child the airmen used to give him rides on the target trolley and that it was "...a bit scary" !! I bet it was :o

Looking at GoogleMaps it shows the complete layout at Theddlethorpe. Roughly in a line along the centre, left to right, we have:
  1. The barracks for trainees - the buildings just to the right of the red roofed building. The current grounds of the barracks (the green area between the yellow fields) also contain some WW2 looking relics. Barracks are now some form of hostel or sheltered accommodation.
  2. The extant turret workshop is roughly in the middle of the view.
  3. Then the 'normal' walls W3, 2 & 1 are still complete.

Photos are:
  • W3 - note additional brick structure at northern end of wall - any ideas what it might have been used for ? It's on the sheltered side of W3 so would people have been in it observing or something ?
  • W1 complete with earth bank
  • W2 looking towards W1 and the sea

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My theory is that Theddlethorpe may have been the first 200yd MTR built and some, if not all, others were copies with minor variations, but I'm more than happy if others have alternative thoughts.

I'll post more stuff about the turret workshop next.
JohnG

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03 Nov 2009 20:48 #126 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges

My theory is that Theddlethorpe may have been the first 200yd MTR built and some, if not all, others were copies with minor variations, but I'm more than happy if others have alternative thoughts.


John,

If the guy who gave you the dates s correct then it might have been the first. It might also explain the odd location and possible Manby connection.
I must admit I have never given much thought to dates so it would be great if some these could be given "used from xxxxxx to xxxxx" in the audits list or just a from date.

No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)

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03 Nov 2009 22:36 #127 by Movingtarget
Replied by Movingtarget on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Well, when I spoke to him about 3-4 years ago he seemed pretty certain of the dates. Parts of the site were begun in 1935 and then the MTR a little later, 1936-7, he was quite clear about it being before the war. He said he used to come home from school and help out building up the earth banks using a horse and cart - the range being on his family's farm. He also said that other times when he got home from school it was his job to round up the sheep grazing on the range so that the airmen could start firing.

I also wondered why the MTR was located there when a lot of the others seemed to be more remote (from Europe), such as Hell's Mouth, Millom, Wigtown, etc., well, that's until the recent finds elsewhere on the East coast. Dates would be useful I feel, I'll see if I've got any others.

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08 Nov 2009 09:53 #128 by PETERTHEEATER
Replied by PETERTHEEATER on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges

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08 Nov 2009 14:07 #129 by carnaby
Replied by carnaby on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges

Llandwrog, or wishful thinking?

Initial reaction was - No. But a closer inspection in Bing Maps suggested otherwise - the dimensions were of the right order.

Now I've just had a look at Edward Doylerush's 'The Legend of Llandwrog'.

There's a 1946 vertical in it which reveals nothing in the relevant area, apart from the vague bucket shape. A glance at the text then found, 'Part of the Llandwrog gunnery training included visits to the MTR at Hell's Mouth'.

Guess that confirms it. The book also states:
The Hell's Mouth MTR was completed by July 1940.
The well known photo of a turret using an MTR was actually at HM. (I'd like to see proof of this)
Visits to Penhros were made twice a week to practise on a 'panoramic turret in one of the hangars'.

The book shows the Luftwaffe target photo of Hell's Mouth; the MTR is clearly visible.

Graham

Plan A is always more effective when the problem you are working on understands that Plan B will involve the use of dynamite :twisted:

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09 Nov 2009 10:11 #130 by PETERTHEEATER
Replied by PETERTHEEATER on topic 200 yard Moving Target Ranges
Spoil sports!

But that seems to be enough evidence to confirm Llandwrog did not have its own MTR and I'm happy it is eliminated.

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