No Memorial?

norwichpaul wrote:

... got me thinking that there must be many storys such as this where there is no memorial to the airmen and people on the ground who died. Therefore I wonder whether we shouldn't post them on here. I for one like reading about them and who knows someone may take note and erect a memorial plaque as a result.[/SIZE][/FONT]

I propose this memorial text:

Remembering the idiot that killed himself and a lot of other people by performing a dangerous and illegal stunt on this spot...

Seriously, if such memorials were placed, they do need to mention that the lives were lost due to carelessness, not enemy attack nor accident.

Tommy

There was talk of erecting a memorial at Duxford to the P38 Pilot who was killed at an airshow there about 10 years ago, This was in Flypast magazine. But to erect a memorial to each individual aircraft and crew member killed whist flying carelessly would be an impossible task,good idea that it is,there would be dozens at each operational aifield and even more at the training stations. Iv'e read of many such incidents over the years where a young 20 year old thought he would show everyone at the airfield just how good-a-pilot he is. Result one smoking crater and no remains !!

norwichpaul;30772 wrote:

I mean what if their surviving relatives came over here seeking more information and apart from Madingley, all there is left, is a slab of faceless concrete. Does not seem fair to me thats all.

I quite agree with that sentiment. Are there not already memorials to individual aircraft crashes here and there across the countryside? Seems like something to get a local history society on about.

Tommy

The Duxford B-17 crash is something I was looking into a while back, due to the 401BG connection.
However, trying to identify the aircraft and crew has so far come up with nothing from the usual sources.

The "Duxford Diary" gives the date as 19th July 1944.
For that date the USAAF Overseas Accident reports list shows four 8AF B-17 losses:

B-17G 42-102937
412BS, 95BG.
Mid-air collision at base, 5 killed.
Pilot: Sasser, James D.
Location: Horham, AAF Stn 119.

B-17G 42-39973
730BS, 452BG.
Crash-landed at base, 3 killed.
Pilot: Gross, Morris L.
Location: Deopham Green, AAF Stn 142.

B-17G 43-37623
413BS, 96BG.
Mid-air collision, 3 killed.
Pilot: Colflesh, Ralph M.
Location, 1 mile west of Sheperds Grove.

B-17F 42-30851
560BS, 388BG.
Mid-air collision, 5 killed.
Pilot: Malaniak, Walter H.
Location: 6 miles east-northeast of Bury St Edmunds.

Checking the 401BG aircraft lists shows only one B-17 loss that day, 44-6129 IN-A of the 613BS, shot down over France after only 42 days with the unit.

More digging needed methinks.

TTFN,
PB

norwichpaul;31454 wrote:

It was from 612 BS.

That's just the thing, neither the 612th, or the 401st as a whole, lost an aircraft that day in the UK, and the USAAF's entire non-US records don't show it either.

It's a complete mystery at the moment.

All the best,
Paul

Could this be the answer to the "what plane/unit" mystery?

From www.95thbg-horham.com/page319.html

42-102937 B17-G (READY FREDDIE)

This aircraft was assigned to the 412th BS 95th BG Horham 30/5/1944
It suffered a non-operational crash at Duxford, 19/7/1944, piloted by James D. Sasser resulting in fourteen deaths and two crew wounded.

Ivor Warne, "North Side Guide" at Duxford, in THIS article states:

On July 19, 1944, a B-17 pilot from the 612th Bomb Squadron, 401st Bomb Group based at Deenethorpe brought his aircraft, ‘Ready Freddie’, to visit an Eighth Air Force colleague at Duxford. They got chatting and decided to take some friends for a flight – it started off sedately, but with 13 on board the next thing was ‘Let’s buzz the tower’. They missed the tower and Hangar 3, but the left wing struck a beacon on the corner of the hangar. The B-17 cleared the Officers’ Mess, but hit the second barrack block – all 13 on board were killed, plus a serviceman who was the only one in the barracks that afternoon. That’s why there’s a big gap here. All that’s left is the entrance to the refuge.

Same aircraft name, 412th Bomb Squadron, 95th Bomb Group vs 612th Bomb Squadron, 401st Bomb group, same date.
Indeed, Lt. Sasser and two other men from his squadron killed that day still lay in Madingley.

Perhaps the guides at Duxford might consider amending the identity of the unit involved in this incident........

TTFN,
PB