Lost photographs and the importance of backing up

25 Jun 2020 11:03 #11 by airfields man
Replied by airfields man on topic Lost photographs ?

Just a thought, but the card readers also get faults so it may be worth trying it in another reader first.


Yes we tried that, went to a camera shop, same there ? I'm reluctant to throwing them away, £11.00 the last one cost. They just don't work ?

The Dead got memorials, The living got time.

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25 Jun 2020 12:44 - 25 Jun 2020 12:45 #12 by carnaby
Replied by carnaby on topic Lost photographs ?
Archiving - a minefield as is everything these days. My thoughts:

Floppy discs - outdated and useless

CD / DVD - once thought to be the answer. I discovered early on some had a lifespan of under a year. A group of us visited Historic England Archive, Swindon a few years ago. They use 'the best possible' and store them in perfect conditions and rate them at just five years.

Thumb drives - I and others have had problems with a few of these over the years.

Hard drives are what I've used for a long time now. I have seven (all named after my neighbours' pets) and two at a time plug into a pair of caddies similar to these www.amazon.co.uk/Orico®-Inch-Drive-Docki...tation/dp/B01DF9MSM0. To date they have been reliable.

I also had a couple of small USB HDs - a Western Digital Passport and a Freecom Toughdrive After some time I had problems with both which largely went away when I used a separate power supply with them (despite my USB ports claiming to easily deliver the current required). However 'problems largely went away' isn't good enough so I no longer use them.

Modern SSDs are reckoned to be expensive, quick and good - but not for long-term storage.

I don't trust The Cloud

So it's back to Jes, Bob, Lyta, Smudge et al - my trusty hard drives. I know they will die eventually just like my real-life compatriots. But I have at least two copies of the more important stuff,

My first back-up system was mini tape drives. Absolutely dreadful. Later I used Iomega Zip disks, until I suffered the much documented 'Iomega Click of Death' which sent them to the dustbin. When I left one company they gave me all my CAD drawings on a half-inch magnetic tape which any IBM mainframe could handle. A while later at another company I managed to get the files transferred from IBM CADAM to Autocad DXF format. Except I didn't - the company told me they couldn't read the tape. They asked me when I'd last used it and told me that that tape has to be run through on a very regular basis otherwise the data 'prints through' adjacent layers and massive corruption occurs, Hours of work on RAF Thornaby, Ammo depots and Airfield Lighting lost.

Until recently I considered using a hammer and chisel to produce stone tablets of my important stuff, but realised they'd probably be blown up by extremists or thrown into a river. Hence that idea has been abandoned.

Plan A is always more effective when the problem you are working on understands that Plan B will involve the use of dynamite :twisted:
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25 Jun 2020 14:01 - 25 Jun 2020 14:03 #13 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Lost photographs ?
To reiterate the principle messages from the above

You should not rely on using SD cards as long term storage

Cloud storage services like Dropbox, Flickr and Dropbox should not be relied upon as their availability and terms of service are not in your control

You should have at least two copies of the data files you value, in this case your photos, on separate devices, by this i mean 2 additional devices over and above any that you are using for working devices

You should make your backup at a frequencey that suits you, but if not regularly you need to ask yourself :-
"How much of a problem would it be for me if i lost all my data since the last time i backed up"

As to why you have lost your files, it is entirely possible that there was a media problem but equally it is possible that the corruption was self inflicted

A quck google came up with the following problematic scenarios that might cause your problem :-

Memory card corruption often results from human error. Awareness of the main causes can help prevent card corruption from occurring.

Causes of memory card corruption

Turning off a camera before an image is completely written to the memory card.

Removing the memory card from a camera while an image is being written to the card.

Removing the card from a memory card reader while files are still being transferred to a computer.

Batteries conking out as files are being transferred directly from the camera to a computer. Note: always make sure you have fully charged batteries before transferring images.

Removing the card from a card reader while folders and files from the card are open on a computer.

Opening, deleting, renaming or moving files on the card while its contents are open on a computer.

Using a memory card which has not been formatted in the camera. Use the delete/erase function when needed, however a card should be regularly formatted.

Formatting a card in a computer instead of the camera. Formatting a memory card in a computer can slow down data processing when it’s used in the camera. With some memory cards, formatting via a computer may result in compatibility and operational problems.

Inserting a second memory card into a card reader before closing and removing the first when viewing images on the card from a computer.

Taking photos when camera batteries are nearly empty.

Taking photos too rapidly so the camera can not complete writing one image before starting the next.

Continually shooting and deleting, shooting and deleting images when the card is full.

Letting a memory card get too full before downloading the images to a computer or storage device. Cards that are too full may overwrite the card headers.

Using a memory card from one camera in a different camera without formatting it in the new camera first.


It may be possible to recover the photos from your corrupt card(s), there are services available where you can send your card away for them to attempt this at a cost

There are also software programs which you can get, sometimes free, which attempt to recover files. You might be more confortable getting a local tech savvy friend to do this for you

To give yourself the best chance of recovery you should not format the drive as your computer prompts you to

kevin
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25 Jun 2020 14:12 #14 by PETERTHEEATER
Replied by PETERTHEEATER on topic Lost photographs ?
I have two copies of my valued data but updating can be a chore. Can anyone recommend a software programme, or even a procedure using existing software which will automate this?

I use WIN 10 on an almost new high-end laptop.

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25 Jun 2020 14:26 - 25 Jun 2020 14:29 #15 by airfields man
Replied by airfields man on topic Lost photographs ?
I wish a real life Tardis could be available, I would go back to the good old 70s things were sooo much better and easier then. Also the music was Great !! Good old cassette player in your car proper wind up - wind down windows that you could still open even when frosted shut.Thankfully my car has a tape player and CD player, so I can still hear stuff that I recorded on tape from those days, and it still sounds good ! and some are 42 years old. I have got a memory card full of photographs, well I suppose it's still full ? but where it plugs in I don't know . I also have a 100 or so video tapes from the early eighties, they still work ok. It's all this modern rubbish that don't work, and don't last. We're progressing backwards.

The Dead got memorials, The living got time.

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25 Jun 2020 15:47 #16 by airfields man
Replied by airfields man on topic Lost photographs ?
Many thanks Kevin for your time and effort, much appreciated. I bought a brand new camera a while ago, similar to yours I believe ? but every time I take a picture IT takes Three ? it used to click three times, but I somehow stopped it from doing that. Now it just clicks once but Three picture still come-out, so I have to keep deleting the second two. Looking at the above list of things not to do,by mistake of course, is it worth the hassle ? Definitely will get another film camera. Photographs in your hand never disappear, unless you lose 'em.

The Dead got memorials, The living got time.

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25 Jun 2020 18:01 #17 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic Lost photographs ?

I have two copies of my valued data but updating can be a chore. Can anyone recommend a software programme, or even a procedure using existing software which will automate this?

I use WIN 10 on an almost new high-end laptop.


I hate to say this but on of the best things I have found for backing up in Microsoft's Synctoy (I don't know if it is still available). I have set up all my documents within folders with each type in a high level folder eg' "Photos" covers all family related photos by year and with various other directories as well and I just create a sync routine to replicate all those folders within photo to an external hard drive. There are a number of options for syncing but whislt I have sufficient disk space I chose to create an exact copy oy my Photos folder on the external drive within Synctoy. If you have two external drives and they adopt the same drive letter you can run the same update on both. The option I chose will delete any files I delete from the master copy (ie the PC one) and add, rename etc any new one or changes. You can do the same for other folders eg my "Aviation folder" and "Aerial photos" folder. You can even choose to run all folder routines in one go assuming the same external hard drive is used. There are different types of back up on there but some I felt were too risky, especially ones that delete the original after copying! I always check everything is as it should be before closing the backup external disk down as deleted files are held in the recycle bin just in case.

I have tried commercial backup programmes but found them restrictive, confusing and if they use incremental backups, very difficult to handle.

I also have a NAS drive (effectively a network server) to share family stuff which has tow identical discs but I set them to be mirrored so the effective storage is only one drive in size but it maintains a duplicate version. This proved its worth 6 months after purchase when a red light showed a disk failure luckily I bought three of the same type and size (3 for 2 offer) and whilst the NAS was still running swapped the disk over and it was backed up on both not long after. The downside of these things is that if the setup goes wrong assigning a fixed drive letter becomes a challenge and also the disks cannot be read by a PC directly as they tend to use special file storage software and are not compatible with Windows or iOS or even Linux/Unix on which it is based.

I think computer history has a lesson as the only consistently readable discs of old were the 5.25 inch floppy disks. Never had a problem with them!

No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
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25 Jun 2020 18:07 #18 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic Lost photographs ?

Many thanks Kevin for your time and effort, much appreciated. I bought a brand new camera a while ago, similar to yours I believe ? but every time I take a picture IT takes Three ? it used to click three times, but I somehow stopped it from doing that. Now it just clicks once but Three picture still come-out, so I have to keep deleting the second two. Looking at the above list of things not to do,by mistake of course, is it worth the hassle ? Definitely will get another film camera. Photographs in your hand never disappear, unless you lose 'em.


It sounds like a setting needs changing on your camera unless you are talking about the RAW image and its associated file? Most new cameras default to JPG with RAW and another small file. The RAW may be called something different on your camera as each manufacturer uses different names and standards to keep things consistent.

One last thing relating to lost photos - If anyone have even got their photos converted to CD/DVD by a commercial company they are not always compatible with current generic photo software so if you have no access to the original reading software you WILL lose all you photos. Trueprint I think is one example.

No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
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25 Jun 2020 21:45 - 25 Jun 2020 21:47 #19 by airfields man
Replied by airfields man on topic Lost photographs ?
Thank you Peter, and everyone else who have responded to my plea. But All this advise is Well Above my Head ! Haven't got a clue of what you are trying to explain to me. Thankfully I am not alone with this problem, five school friends also detest this Modern technology rubbish ! Though my 3 year older Brother is Surperb at all this stuff !? Some of my Normal Camera photograph's over the years have come-out a bit blurred when posted on the forum. Whereas others have come-out Perfectly Clear ? So it's back to a Proper Camera from now-on. Think that I'll also buy a redundant filing-cabinet from work to store things, much more reliable !!

The Dead got memorials, The living got time.

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29 Jun 2020 11:14 #20 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Lost photographs ?

I have two copies of my valued data but updating can be a chore. Can anyone recommend a software programme, or even a procedure using existing software which will automate this?

I use WIN 10 on an almost new high-end laptop.


I hate to say this but on of the best things I have found for backing up in Microsoft's Synctoy (I don't know if it is still available). I have set up all my documents within folders with each type in a high level folder eg' "Photos" covers all family related photos by year and with various other directories as well and I just create a sync routine to replicate all those folders within photo to an external hard drive. There are a number of options for syncing but whislt I have sufficient disk space I chose to create an exact copy oy my Photos folder on the external drive within Synctoy. If you have two external drives and they adopt the same drive letter you can run the same update on both. The option I chose will delete any files I delete from the master copy (ie the PC one) and add, rename etc any new one or changes. You can do the same for other folders eg my "Aviation folder" and "Aerial photos" folder. You can even choose to run all folder routines in one go assuming the same external hard drive is used. There are different types of back up on there but some I felt were too risky, especially ones that delete the original after copying! I always check everything is as it should be before closing the backup external disk down as deleted files are held in the recycle bin just in case.

I have tried commercial backup programmes but found them restrictive, confusing and if they use incremental backups, very difficult to handle.


The problem with many commercial backup systems i have used in the past has been that they compress and package allt he files you are backing up into a single file. This causes all sorts of problems when you are attempting to extract a single file or folder or specific files from the backup.

My preference will always be a backup which looks like and is accessible just like the original source. You can do this manualy with a drag and drop in windows explorer or even and the command prompt

Synctoy is an excellent tool which has been available for many years and is still downloadable for free from Microsoft, at version 2.1 now.

I have not used it for some years, but apparantly it works on Windows 10. I suspect there may be som finangling but I will give it a try and report back.

kevin
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