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VC Eligibility criteria
- pauline
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14 May 2017 16:25 - 15 May 2017 16:54 #1
by pauline
VC Eligibility criteria was created by pauline
New topic created from "VC Heroes graves throughout the UK"
Not strictly air crew related Peter but I have always wanted to know why my uncle's daughter from his first marriage only received the King's Commendation for Brave Conduct when she and a fellow Sister in the QAIMNS saved the lives of at least 70 men when the hospital ship that they were serving on, the Amsterdam, was sunk by a German torpedo on 7th August 1944. Yes I know that they were girls but it would be difficult to think of any conduct more brave than theirs as they carried the wounded men, some of whom had only just had limbs amputated, up onto the deck, and my uncle's daughter lost her own life as a result, the last sighting of her being her legs sticking out of a porthole. Her name was Mollie Evershed and she was only 27 years old. I believe that there is a memorial to Mollie in her home town of Soham Cambridgeshire and I know that her father and mother, received a letter signed by many of the men who were saved as a direct result of her bravery expressing their heartfelt thanks to Mollie. Both of those sisters deserved a VC if anybody did.
Not strictly air crew related Peter but I have always wanted to know why my uncle's daughter from his first marriage only received the King's Commendation for Brave Conduct when she and a fellow Sister in the QAIMNS saved the lives of at least 70 men when the hospital ship that they were serving on, the Amsterdam, was sunk by a German torpedo on 7th August 1944. Yes I know that they were girls but it would be difficult to think of any conduct more brave than theirs as they carried the wounded men, some of whom had only just had limbs amputated, up onto the deck, and my uncle's daughter lost her own life as a result, the last sighting of her being her legs sticking out of a porthole. Her name was Mollie Evershed and she was only 27 years old. I believe that there is a memorial to Mollie in her home town of Soham Cambridgeshire and I know that her father and mother, received a letter signed by many of the men who were saved as a direct result of her bravery expressing their heartfelt thanks to Mollie. Both of those sisters deserved a VC if anybody did.
Last edit: 15 May 2017 16:54 by netcompsys.
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- mbriscoe
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14 May 2017 16:52 #2
by mbriscoe
I can't remember details but I am sure I have read at least one other case where it was thought the woman would have received a higher level of medal if they had been men but I think it would not have been the VC, it would be the GC though they are of course considered equal in terms of gallantry.
Replied by mbriscoe on topic VC Eligibility criteria
Not strictly air crew related Peter but I have always wanted to know why my uncle's daughter from his first marriage only received the King's Commendation for Brave Conduct when she and a fellow Sister in the QAIMNS saved the lives of at least 70 men when the hospital ship that they were serving on, the Amsterdam, was sunk by a German torpedo on 7th August 1944. Yes I know that they were girls but it would be difficult to think of any conduct more brave than theirs as they carried the wounded men, some of whom had only just had limbs amputated, up onto the deck, and my uncle's daughter lost her own life as a result, the last sighting of her being her legs sticking out of a porthole. Her name was Mollie Evershed and she was only 27 years old. I believe that there is a memorial to Mollie in her home town of Soham Cambridgeshire and I know that her father and mother, received a letter signed by many of the men who were saved as a direct result of her bravery expressing their heartfelt thanks to Mollie. Both of those sisters deserved a VC if anybody did.
I can't remember details but I am sure I have read at least one other case where it was thought the woman would have received a higher level of medal if they had been men but I think it would not have been the VC, it would be the GC though they are of course considered equal in terms of gallantry.
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14 May 2017 22:48 #3
by pauline
Replied by pauline on topic VC Eligibility criteria
Hi Martin,
Thank you. I take your point about the GC but as Mollie's name is on the UK, Army Roll of Honour 1939-1945 I assume that your reason is that she would have been thought not to have been engaged on the front line? Those in the QAIMNS were military personnel and Mollie was mentioned in despatches but I shall always think that she deserved more recognition.
Pauline.
Thank you. I take your point about the GC but as Mollie's name is on the UK, Army Roll of Honour 1939-1945 I assume that your reason is that she would have been thought not to have been engaged on the front line? Those in the QAIMNS were military personnel and Mollie was mentioned in despatches but I shall always think that she deserved more recognition.
Pauline.
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- mbriscoe
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14 May 2017 23:18 #4
by mbriscoe
They could be quite strict in the rulings. More a case of not "in the face of the enemy". Just looking through the list of recipients and I don't think there are any nurses though several RAMC but they are more likely to be right up facing the enemy.
Replied by mbriscoe on topic VC Eligibility criteria
Hi Martin,
Thank you. I take your point about the GC but as Mollie's name is on the UK, Army Roll of Honour 1939-1945 I assume that your reason is that she would have been thought not to have been engaged on the front line? Those in the QAIMNS were military personnel and Mollie was mentioned in despatches but I shall always think that she deserved more recognition.
Pauline.
They could be quite strict in the rulings. More a case of not "in the face of the enemy". Just looking through the list of recipients and I don't think there are any nurses though several RAMC but they are more likely to be right up facing the enemy.
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15 May 2017 16:33 #5
by canberra
Replied by canberra on topic VC Eligibility criteria
Was this nursing sister killed? I ask as up until the early eighties the only military decorations (and the GC is a civilian award not a military one)that could be awarded posthumosly were the VC and a mention in dispatches/ kings commendation. And when it comes to VCs the criteria for awarding one is very strict indeed.
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- mbriscoe
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15 May 2017 16:56 #6
by mbriscoe
The George Cross is awarded for gallantry "not in the face of the enemy" to members of the British armed forces and to British civilians It has always been able to be awarded posthumously. The George Medal can also be awarded to military personnel.
We have a memorial cairn near here to Corporal James Hendry GC killed in 1941.
Replied by mbriscoe on topic VC Heroes graves throughout the UK
Was this nursing sister killed? I ask as up until the early eighties the only military decorations (and the GC is a civilian award not a military one)that could be awarded posthumosly were the VC and a mention in dispatches/ kings commendation. And when it comes to VCs the criteria for awarding one is very strict indeed.
The George Cross is awarded for gallantry "not in the face of the enemy" to members of the British armed forces and to British civilians It has always been able to be awarded posthumously. The George Medal can also be awarded to military personnel.
We have a memorial cairn near here to Corporal James Hendry GC killed in 1941.
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- netcompsys
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15 May 2017 16:56 #7
by netcompsys
kevin
Replied by netcompsys on topic VC Eligibility criteria
Topic separated from the one on VC Graves and Memorials
kevin
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- pauline
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15 May 2017 21:51 - 15 May 2017 21:52 #8
by pauline
Yes, Mollie Evershed was killed (see the original message) These two sisters in Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing Service knew that the Amsterdam was sinking but still carried the wounded men up tilting gangways and saved their lives. It is hard to understand why the pilot of an aircraft who saved his crew by his bravery would get a VC and these two women who saved 70 lives did not. Mollie was mentioned in dispatches and did have the kings commendation but it is not quite the same. I don't think that her body was ever found but she is recorded on the Bayeux Memorial.
Her father, Reginald Avery Evershed was a serving officer at Alconbury where he met my aunt who was in the NAAFI there.
You can read all about the sinking of the Amsterdam in 'Quiet Heroines: Nurses of the Second World War' by Brenda McBryde.
Replied by pauline on topic VC Eligibility criteria
Was this nursing sister killed? I ask as up until the early eighties the only military decorations (and the GC is a civilian award not a military one)that could be awarded posthumosly were the VC and a mention in dispatches/ kings commendation. And when it comes to VCs the criteria for awarding one is very strict indeed.
Yes, Mollie Evershed was killed (see the original message) These two sisters in Queen Alexandra's Imperial Military Nursing Service knew that the Amsterdam was sinking but still carried the wounded men up tilting gangways and saved their lives. It is hard to understand why the pilot of an aircraft who saved his crew by his bravery would get a VC and these two women who saved 70 lives did not. Mollie was mentioned in dispatches and did have the kings commendation but it is not quite the same. I don't think that her body was ever found but she is recorded on the Bayeux Memorial.
Her father, Reginald Avery Evershed was a serving officer at Alconbury where he met my aunt who was in the NAAFI there.
You can read all about the sinking of the Amsterdam in 'Quiet Heroines: Nurses of the Second World War' by Brenda McBryde.
Last edit: 15 May 2017 21:52 by pauline.
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- ww2ni
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16 May 2017 15:38 #9
by ww2ni
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Replied by ww2ni on topic VC Eligibility criteria
I suspect that no matter whether actions meet the criteria for the award of a Victoria Cross, or indeed any other Medal / Award or not everything depends on how and indeed IF the Senior Officers recommend the Medal.
I am sure there are many examples of actions which deserve but have not received justified reward.
I am sure there are many examples of actions which deserve but have not received justified reward.
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16 May 2017 16:10 - 16 May 2017 16:11 #10
by netcompsys
Indeed, there are all sorts of reabsons why an immediate gallantry award is not made.
For instance I became aware of such an incident while researching my fathers squadron, it involved one man staying to help another in a stricken bomber over Germany, neither survived, but it was reported later when the surviving aircrew were debriefed after being released from a PoW camp at the end of the war. By this time the Squadron had been disbanded. So no infrastructure to report or recommend.
I am sure it will not have been an isolated incident
kevin
Replied by netcompsys on topic VC Eligibility criteria
I suspect that no matter whether actions meet the criteria for the award of a Victoria Cross, or indeed any other Medal / Award or not everything depends on how and indeed IF the Senior Officers recommend the Medal.
I am sure there are many examples of actions which deserve but have not received justified reward.
Indeed, there are all sorts of reabsons why an immediate gallantry award is not made.
For instance I became aware of such an incident while researching my fathers squadron, it involved one man staying to help another in a stricken bomber over Germany, neither survived, but it was reported later when the surviving aircrew were debriefed after being released from a PoW camp at the end of the war. By this time the Squadron had been disbanded. So no infrastructure to report or recommend.
I am sure it will not have been an isolated incident
kevin
Last edit: 16 May 2017 16:11 by netcompsys.
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