I'm interested in finding ou the identities of the crew-members in the attached photographs.
I don't have his logbook, or I would likely have the answer.
My research has identified the aircraft as a Lancaster Mk III, JB655, code BL.
My father, Joseph Albert Tenice Gauthie R.C.A.F. (CAN.R273083), is in the back row (left side) if the crew photo in front of the aircraft.
Based upon my father's service records, he was posted to Lindholme during the period 31 May 1945 to 9 July 1945.
Other research shows that during that period, JB655 was assigned to 1656 HCU, also based out of Lindholme.
So; I think I might be able to answer my question if someone can help me locate documentation showing the HCU 1656 aircrew assigned to JB655 at Lindhome from 31 May 1945 to 9 July 1945.
If anyone can help, it would be appreciated as I've been working on this question for over 5 years without much success.
1656 HCU, or Heavy Conversion Unit was a training unit, the last stage of training before a posting of the crew to an operational squadron
VE Day was May 8 so he didn't arrive until after that.
VJ Day was August 15 so perhaps his crew might have been preparing to join Tiger Force which was going to be flying Lancasters in the Far East
Training units like 1656 HCU generally used relatively tired aircraft retired from front line squadrons. Aircraft would have not been allocated to individual crews on an HCU. Even on an operational squadron it was not normal for a crew to get their "own" aircraft until they had completed a significant number of Ops
So the presence of an identifiable aircraft is not significant
Presumably the photo is of 7 men. This would be a "crew" which had formed and trained together at the previous stage of training and which were preparing together as a unit for operations
Difficult to track down the names of the rest of the crew without either a flying log book or having completed an operation when the names would be recorded in the operations Record book (ORB).
Sometimes there are names or signatures on the photo or on the reverse
kevin
The following user(s) said Thank You: GaryGauthier
Sorry about the lack of photos. Not sure why they were not shown. Perhaps the size of the two photos, together, was too large. I'll try to attach just the crew photo to this post and then add a post.
It's unfortunate that the aircraft and crew were not paired. I was hoping to be able to identify the crew with which he flew. Not sure what more I can do, since my brother advises me that Dad's logbook was not found in his papers. As the original photo was a wallet-sized one, there wasn't anything on the back. Since Dad entered the war so late and was repatriated soon after, he would not have been mentioned in the ORB's.
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Last edit: 15 Oct 2020 09:37 by netcompsys. Reason: inserted photo
Just as a side comment, if you search Google for Lancaster JB655 you will find a number of references to its use on operations.
One of those says it crashed at Old Boingbroke, in February 1944. Clearly an error. The aircraft was in fact ED655
kevin
The following user(s) said Thank You: GaryGauthier
I don't think your chances are good. It is unlikely to be recorded in the Lindholme airfield ORB, AIR28/479 and the fragment of surviving 1656CU ORB stops at Sept 43. (These are National Archive references, you will need to visit, to be certain).
Your only chance, I feel, will be if a fellow crewmans logbook is presented to the IBCC memorial archive, or similar Australian or Canadian set-ups.
Good Luck! Have you tried leaving a request with the RAF Commands website? There just might be someone out there ahead of you in collating 1656 details. All it takes is the piece to fall in place.
The following user(s) said Thank You: IanDDavidson, GaryGauthier
Received a picture of the tail of Lancaster JB655 and am wondering about the tail marking. I understand the Red-White-Blue marking is the standard for British aircraft, but the apparently "white" section above could perhaps tell more about when the picture was taken. If anyone has seen this on an aircraft, could they let me know the associated unit etc?
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Last edit: 15 Oct 2020 09:38 by netcompsys. Reason: inserted photo
I suspect that the fin top is yellow,rather than white. It is not a squadron marking but a daylight identifier used at the tail end of the war when day raids were common. As crews were not taught formation flying in the USAAF sense, rather a looser 'gaggle', it helped bunch up airspace around the Gee-H leader, the squadron navigation expert.
JB655 served with 103 sqn, before going to 1656 CU (hence the BL code) then 1660 CU before being struck off charge (scrapped) after 2/1/46. I have never known such markings on CU machines though. They wouldn't be needed, as they didn't need to do ops by this stage of the war. Maybe it didn't get painted out after leaving 103? Are you certain the serial is in the JB range?
The following user(s) said Thank You: GaryGauthier
Thanks for replying and explaining the marking and colour. I’m reasonably sure of the “B655” portion, but the “J” might be in slight doubt. I have one other view of the aircraft in which it appears ther is a somewhat indistinct “J”. I had to blow the picture up quite a bit to see it. Per his military records, Dad came into the war pretty late and never was posted to an operational unit. That is why him being in a crew flying a Lanc with a fin flash is so odd. I’ll look and see if the “J” could be something else. But; I’ll also type up a list of the postings he had and the dates and post that here. As you have better knowledge of the situation, you may be able to make some sense of when the aircraft and Dad were at the same place at the same time. Thank you, again, for your help.
I'm attaching a much clearer picture that shows that the second letter and subsequent three digits of the aircraft number are "B655".
Note that the RAFCommands website's database shows that only Lancaster JB655 has the last four characters of "B655".
Also; below are the movements of Al Gauthier, My Dad, while overseas and also the movement of the aircraft.
Note that the presence of JB655 and my Dad had to be at one of 19 OTU, 74 Base, 71 Base or 62 Base.
it can't be Topcliffe as he was on his way home.
Personnel Movements:
(1943-09-13 – 103 Squadron receives JB655)
• 1944-06-24 – Disemb. U.K.
• 1944-06-25 – Int.C.246 to 3 RCAF PRC
(1944-11-10 – 1656 Heavy Conversion Unit (H.C.U.) receives JB655)
• 1944-11-28 – 3 RCAF PRC to 19 OTU
(1944-11-28 – Al Gauthier starts Air Gunner's Course at 19OTU)
(1945-03-07 – Al Gauthier completes Air Gunner's Course at 19OTU)
• 1945-03-23 – 19 OTU to 74 Base
• 1945-05-31 – 74 Base to 71 Base
• 1945-07-09 – 71 Base to 62 Base
• 1945-10-10 – 62 Base to Topcliffe
(1945-11-15 – 1660 Heavy Conversion Unit (H.C.U.) receives JB655)
• 1945-11-30 – Topcliffe to Torquay
(1945-12-07 – Cat. Ac., damaged and later Struck Off Charge on 1946-01-02)
Here are the movements of JB655 from the Form 78 Card.
Aircraft Movements:
• 1943-09-13 - 103 Squadron.
• 1944-07-29 - Repaired On Site (R.O.S.).
• 1944-09-10 - 103 Squadron.
• 1944-11-10 - 1656 Heavy Conversion Unit (H.C.U.).
• 1945-11-15 - 1660 Heavy Conversion Unit (H.C.U.).
• 1945-12-07 - Cat. Ac.
• 1946-01-02 - Re: Cat. E., Struck Off Charge (S.O.C.).
Damage Categories shown in the above list of aircraft movements:
• Cat. Ac - Repair is beyond the unit capacity, but can be repaired on site by another unit or a contractor.
• Cat E- Write-off.
Additional Information:
• In the “Authority” column for entry of 2 January 1946, there is a somewhat lengthy notation; “439/153/JB655/E2.” The appended “E2” is likely a more complete Damage Category and would imply that JB655 was not only a write-off, but also only considered suitable for scrap (Cat. E2).
The question, now, is to get an accurate record of the movement of 1656 HCU.
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Last edit: 15 Oct 2020 09:39 by netcompsys. Reason: inserted photo
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