Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.

11 Jan 2021 17:27 #21 by redmist
Replied by redmist on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.
It is definitely one of the 'Light Fleet Carriers' 1942 Design, it possibly might be one of the two Maintenance carriers either Perseus or Pioneer which were intended for transporting planes as well as maintaining them. More than that I don't know.

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11 Jan 2021 21:04 - 11 Jan 2021 21:05 #22 by John Anderson
Replied by John Anderson on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.
Looking at the way the aircraft wings are folded.

The aircraft groups to the left and right of the centre group look to be Fairey Fireflies (night fighter version), with wings folded alongside the fuselage towards the tailplane. There appear to be radomes, which were mounted on the wing leading edges inboard of the wing cannon. Think the middle group are not Seafires, as their wings had 2 folds, the outer ones were near the wing tips and in the opposite direction to the main folds.
The following user(s) said Thank You: redmist

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12 Jan 2021 10:39 #23 by redmist
Replied by redmist on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.

Looking at the way the aircraft wings are folded.

The aircraft groups to the left and right of the centre group look to be Fairey Fireflies (night fighter version), with wings folded alongside the fuselage towards the tailplane. There appear to be radomes, which were mounted on the wing leading edges inboard of the wing cannon. Think the middle group are not Seafires, as their wings had 2 folds, the outer ones were near the wing tips and in the opposite direction to the main folds.


Thanks for that John. I did wonder about the folded wingtips, as I had picked up on the 'double fold' on Seafires, but further wondered if it might be possible to fold them without the top fold? It is just that, to my old eyes, the shape of the wing tips looks right for Seafires. But I am happy to be corrected. And yes, I did pick up on the folded back wings but at that point decided I would post on here :-)

Thanks everyone for your input.

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27 Jan 2021 11:17 #24 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.
It occurred to me that it might be possible to find the name of the carrier by working out which ships had been built and commissioned in Glasgows dockyards in 1949, which is the date attributed to this photo by BfA, but the readily available information defeated me.

Similarly it seemed odd for a RN carrier to be embarking aircraft from a dockside rather than flying them on, since that would have been part of the working up to operational status for a carrier

Suggestion has been made that the ship might be one of the maintenance carriers but Pioneer had been placed into the reserve in 1946 and similarly Perseus was in the reserve between 1946 and 1950

However a number of these carriers were sold abroad, in particular, Terrible became HMAS Sydney and Magnificent was commissioned into the Canadian Navy, and these were commissioned in the UK in 1948.

Magnificent returned to the UK in 1949 to embark some new Firefly V's (wiki), but its Sea Furies were loaded while alongside at Sydenham in 1948, see below



Looking into HMAS Sydneys movements, although built in Devonport, there are photos of it embarking aircraft while alongside in King George Dock in October 1950. This is one of a series

© IWM A 31743

HMAS SYDNEY GETS NEW PLANES FOR AUSTRALIA. 17 OCTOBER 1950, KING GEORGE V DOCK, GLASGOW. AIRCRAFT BEING EMBARKED ON THE AUSTRALIAN CARRIER SYDNEY BEFORE THE SHIP'S DEPARTURE FOR AUSTRALIA. THE AIRCRAFT WERE FIREFLY MARK VI AND SEA FURY MARK XI.

(Their caps - sorry)

Similarly the Australian War Memorial has photos of the same event

www.awm.gov.au/collection/C233007

GLASGOW, SCOTLAND. 1950. AIRCRAFT BEING EMBARKED ON BOARD THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER HMAS SYDNEY (III). THE AIRCRAFT ON THE SHIP ARE FIREFLY ANTI SUBMARINE AIRCRAFT. A SEA FURY FIGHTER IS SUSPENDED FROM THE CRANE AND ANOTHER AWAITS LOADING ON THE LEFT. THE AIRCRAFT HAVE BEEN TREATED WITH A PRESERVATION MATERIAL. (NAVAL HISTORICAL COLLECTION)

(Again their caps)

However there are also photos whose captions contradict that timeline, for instance, among others

1949-05. A HAWKER SEA FURY FB.11. FIGHTER BOMBER (VW644) ON THE DECK OF THE LIGHT FLEET CARRIER HMAS SYDNEY ON ITS ARRIVAL IN AUSTRALIA. THE AIRCRAFT IS EMBALMED TO PROTECT IT FROM THE ELEMENTS DURING THE VOYAGE FROM THE UK. IN THE BACKGROUND IS THE FUSELAGE OF FAIREY FIREFLY FIGHTER BOMBER NO 241, WITHOUT ITS WINGS. NOTE THE TYPE 277 HEIGHT FINDING RADAR ABOVE THE CARRIER'S BRIDGE TRAINED TO PORT. (NAVAL HISTORICAL COLLECTION).


So there are some date anomalies I was unable to resolve, the carrier may have been the Sydney, but the aircraft almost certainly were Firefly V and Sea Fury FB 11

kevin

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27 Jan 2021 15:24 - 27 Jan 2021 15:26 #25 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.
HMAS Sydney was in UK waters between February 1949 and 12 April when she sailed to Australia with Sea Furies an Fireflies on board. The trip took 4 weeks

On 9th June 1950 she sailed for the UK again arriving 24 July and departed for Australia with more Sea Furies and Fireflies on 26 October

This explains the date anomalies on the photos above

kevin

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27 Jan 2021 15:48 #26 by Peter Kirk
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.
That was a quick answer to your own question, isn't the internet wonderful - sometimes.

No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)

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27 Jan 2021 16:04 #27 by netcompsys
Replied by netcompsys on topic Help in i.d.ing an aircraft please.
Just asking different questions, or a different way

Hopefully the original poster will attribute the answers to ARG when he posts them on BfA when it comes back on line next month ......

kevin

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