Closed due to snow !

Carnaby;119023 wrote:

Last night on the local news Bristol was proudly showing off its new super snow clearing plant. The airport was closed this morning and still is (14.45). Wrong kind of snow I guess!

'Wrong kind of snow' was actually mentioned on later local news (though unconnected to Bristol Airport). Evidently abnormal weather conditions had produced dry snow which wouldn't make snowballs.

SimonGee;119175 wrote:

My offering as to some reasons why we 'just kept on going' in 1963 could be -

Steam engines are much heavier than diesel engines, thus had more purchase on the rails.

Any advance/comment on this - ?

Certainly some truth in this. Also steam locos had coupled driving wheels, which assisted with adhesion.

Since its demise, many of the steam hauled services were taken over by multiple units.

1) The power/weight ratio for modern multiple units which are now more prevalent, has undergone a massive change. Good most of the time, but much worse in "low adhesion" conditions such as leaf fall and snow/ice. When this occurs they suffer wheelslip when they try to accelerate, and wheelslide when they brake. Those old slam-door multiple-unit electrics which were in operation then (59/62 stock) had far heavier axle weights than modern units, and their soft iron pads acted directly on the tyres, thus cleaning off snow build-up. Modern trains have disc brakes on the axles, which can clog if not managed carefully.

2) When the OHLE or 3rd rail is snow covered, heavy arcing occurs when traction motors are drawing current. Also modern electric trains are much more power hungry (eg, Aircon) and their sensitive onboard computer management systems don't like spikes in the supply. They just don't seem to have been designed for bad weather conditions.

3) Modern trains have electrically or pneumatically operated power operated doors, and the mechanisms freeze up very readily in cold conditions. This is the cause of many cancellations as Emergency Evacuation is a big Elf & Safetree issue. Slam-door stock just didn't have these problems.

One of the problems with modern electric trains in the UK is that the motors are close to ground level and vulnerable to snow/ice being drievn into the motor casing/gearbox at high speeds. Most of the East Anglian overhead routes have been speed restricted since the cold snap started for this reason.

I'm guessing the extra costs of fully winterising the rolling stock exceed the operational losses over the average two or three weeks of snow the UK has traditionally had over the last thirty years or so.

There seems to be the same level of chaos for the first two weeks of snow no matter where you look (Canada, Germany, etc - German tv has been commenting on problems there the last two weeks to an exten I've not seen in previous years, or maybe I'm just watching more of it).. I think it's just that the first two weeks is usually all we ever get so the UK seems to be 100% chaos when snow arrives, whereas if you have twelve weeks of heavy winter it's just that bit at the start whilst everyone adjusts to the conditions and quickly forgotten about.

SimonGee;119175 wrote:

Any advance/comment on this - ?

Only that I completely agree with your post!

We had a 'red warning' for our area this weekend, I didn't realise that if I had driven during that warning period I wouldn't have been insured!
Was also reminded that by shovelling the snow of our pavement, that if someone was then to slip that they could sue me!

It's todays culture that brings us to a halt.

Interesting you mention trains, I was watching a steam train trying to get up the incline into St Austell station a few years back, it needed the assistance of a modern diesel to do it.
When questioned why the struggle had occured it was mentioned that the line used to be surrounded by trees and these would drop sap onto the lines, giving extra purchase to the tracks.

There is something about snow bringing everything to a halt which I do like - shows that we still don't have mastery over the weather.

mawganmad;119207 wrote:

Was also reminded that by shovelling the snow of our pavement, that if someone was then to slip that they could sue me!

A common misconception.. if you DON'T keep you path clear you can be held liable for injuries to visitors. This applies to domestic and commercial properties - Occupiers' Liability Act 1957 - this one applies to domestic properties as well as commercial, Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992.

It's a very common misconception, even government ministers have got it wrong when speaking on the radio. The problem with clearing snow/ice occurs when you do it badly, ie. if you use hot water to clear snow and ice and this then freezes as a slick surface. If you're sensible, shovel off the loose snow, apply salt/grit if needed and repeat as required, you've nothing to wprry about legally - that is, if you do the common sense and good neghbour action you're complying with the law.

Most legislation is not as daft as sheeple make out. It's the misinterpretation of legislation that results in the stupidity - and as I've said, elected members of government are not above stupid thinking.

MM: what is the UK coming too? No insurance if you drive in nasty weather!

Alastair, completely agree about he chaos of he first heavy snows, here in Quebec we prepare, the ploughs practice their routes we put our winter tyres on and then pow, a half hour journey on the TransCanada Highway takes 2 hours.

I was out today, there was a high wind and blowing snow advisory, drove along an open section of the Trans Canada on the Quebec Ontario border, absolute chaos, cars pulling over and stopping cars and transports spun out in the ditch, the Ontraio Provinical Police (OPP or Ontario Party Poopers) had actually closed the TCH for a few hours.

As was said we have no mastery of the weather, probably a good thing on reflection

mawganmad;119207 wrote:

Interesting you mention trains, I was watching a steam train trying to get up the incline into St Austell station a few years back, it needed the assistance of a modern diesel to do it.
When questioned why the struggle had occured it was mentioned that the line used to be surrounded by trees and these would drop sap onto the lines, giving extra purchase to the tracks.

I don't think that's true. Back in the days of steam, trackside vegetation would be regularly cut back to avoid brush fires in the summer.

The modern neglect of the trackside led in recent times to the "leaves on the line" fiasco...

Alastair;119202 wrote:

One of the problems with modern electric trains in the UK is that the motors are close to ground level and vulnerable to snow/ice being drievn into the motor casing/gearbox at high speeds. Most of the East Anglian overhead routes have been speed restricted since the cold snap started for this reason.

Well that's what the hacks at the Daily Mail tell you. There's a little more to it than that. Speed Restrictions in snow can come about for several reasons....

a) a Rulebook requirement for trains to run below linespeed & also make regular (3-5 mins) Full Service Brake applications when snow is disturbed by the passage of trains. This is to ensure that their brake mechanisms don't become clogged & inoperable.

b) Protecting the pantograph and OHLE, which are both weighted down and not as kinetically responsive as usual. The carbon strips on the head of the pantograph are fragile, and if they break or become dislodged the catenary wire can also be damaged. At best, one train will stranded. At worst a section of catenary will have to replaced, causing the line to be closed.

c) There is an increased risk of derailment, and if it does happen the outcome would be lessened at 60 mph rather than 90 ! (This isn't a reason they like to tell the public)

SNAFU